Commissioned Mods? (1 Viewer)

[The Hacker Known As Snow]

I just wanted to get everyone's two cents on commissions.

Everything has been pretty egalitarian so far but we have very few artists still around and very few requests are being filled.

 

[Nunya]

Interesting thought. I guess I have mixed feelings about it and just now seeing this post would have to give it some thought. I suppose as long as things are kept reasonable, why not? Although, obviously, "free" would be better. In my case, a "collaboration" seems more along my lines. I am fairly handy with gimp and could probably create some of the graphic work, I just don't have the software or a working knowledge of flash to, put a whole package together.

 

[SyntaxTerror]

I think that paying for resquests would be problematic and unfair for modders, and finally detrimental to mod creation.

Anyway, most mods take hours to make, so asking 5 or 10 euros/dollars seems like an insult to me. If I really needed money, I'd go do extra hours in McDonald's, it would be more efficient...
Also, what about modders that make mods without requests and these mods get dowloaded much more that some obscure request?

Examples:

random furry $#!+ (requested, 2-3 hours of work + 30 minutes cos requester didn't like the ears), 837 dowloads since June 2016.

Rem (done on my own, 4-5 hours of work), 4,436 downloads since June 2016.

animtools (done by sby, 28th version, probably dozens of hours of work, or even more), 132,369 downloads since February 2016.

Also, what about helping new users or making tutorials so newbies can make mods themselves?

An option could be to be paid for each download from the ad revenues of the site (I have really no idea how much the total could be).
With this, I could buy a pair of socks, and sby the latest Maserati.

Anyway, I don't need new socks, so I'll continue to provide my mods for free...
Bringing money would only bring problems in my opinion, but every modder is free to ask to be paid or even adding Patreon or PayPal links to his mods or signature (I am thinking about it for a long time indeed...).

 

[Hentai_Master_Hand_44]

Quite interesting indeed. A question of state of mind in general. If the money aspect arise then its close to become industry. Passion! That is the modders fuel in the 1st place, this will burn away as cash comes in. Instead money will become the passion like almost everywhere. That would be a pity in my opinion. Even on a commissions base its still the same idea.

Its the best part in humans to do something for free and share with others, just for the joy and enthusiasm. And the cherry on top here is, if someone makes a request and this is granted by one with the skills. Why destroy something so awesome? I would even say unique.

Sure its sounding dramatic what I type and passion does not rule out gaining money, true. But the point is money will become the main fuel if not instandly then down the road.

Trading true passion/enthusiasm for gaining money? "Not cool" from me ;)

 

[sby]

SyntaxTerror more like 150-200 hours
luckily, that is spread over a long time

 

[antsstyle]

While it's not for me to say whether it would be good or not - given I do not regularly post here - I do think it would be a good idea for there to be more discussion and consideration of this topic.

As noted by others, there are comparatively few active modders and fulfilled requests in recent times; I suspect a large part of this is down to SDT's rather restrictive style, as in past times requesting something with anime features and perfect 90 degree refs would be easy for anime characters. Now that most requests in that genre are likely already fulfilled, many requests that remain and come in now are likely to fall into the "it's not possible to find perfect refs or an anime style ref" bracket, making it much harder and/or longer for mods to fulfil those requests due to the extra work / art skill involved, especially with regards to costumes.

It's possible that making a commission sub-forum or some other solution might help encourage new modders to hone those skills (if they want to), it's not mutually exclusive with being enthuastic about modding.

 

[SyntaxTerror]

If requesters are really wanting a mod to be made and are willing to pay for it, there are many online solutions to hire drawers and even flash coders, like freelancer.com, where one can hire flash drawers for ridiculous wages.

If one thinks that paying for mods on undertow.club will magically make new modders appear, or will suddenly make any mod be made, one's going to be very disappointed.

 

[Samoth]

As noted by others, there are comparatively few active modders and fulfilled requests in recent times; I suspect a large part of this is down to SDT's rather restrictive style, as in past times requesting something with anime features and perfect 90 degree refs would be easy for anime characters.

I'd also argue that it's just overall popularity and a potential lack thereof; over time, casual users probably stop using the site (and as far as I'm personally aware it's not like there's ads out there for SDT to begin with). Sure, some people keep on going, but not everyone will. SDT has definitely passed its heyday, and Adobe discontinuing Flash Player (at least within browsers) certainly won't help.

I've admittedly also entertained the thought of commissions in my head previously but it ends up falling down to an issue of cost, sort of like Syntax's first remark. If the cost is too low, it becomes worse than working minimum wage in terms of money vs. time. If the cost is too high, it becomes an issue of "is this really worth the cost" since I can't help but mentally compare character mods to fighting game character DLC (which would end up likely being on that 5-10 range for 1 character, which loops back to the first case) since both are functionally the same idea.

 

[antsstyle]

It depends. Not being a modder, I can't speak on how much time for example the average static hair or costume mod takes, but I would imagine that pricing them based on an estimate of hours would work fine. I can't imagine many people would prefer to work at McDonalds versus sitting at home working on an SDT mod if the wage wasn't much different; assuming say, a rate of $10 an hour as an example, a mod that takes 10 hours would cost $100.

That said, I imagine there would not be many takers, but at the same time - I don't see why that matters.

If I use Syntax's hair mods as an example, that'd make them around $40-50, which isn't that expensive if one particularly wants a mod. It'd be interesting to know how long costumes take, so that we can see how practical it is to think about the concept of commissioning them, as I don't know any data on that.

 

[sclover13]

I've thrown around the idea of art for "tips"/donations with little traction. I love making mods, but rarely prioritize requests. This is simply because most of my complete mods can take anywhere from 5-20 hours per mod (sometimes much more).

 

[UndertowTruck]

SyntaxTerror more like 150-200 hours
luckily, that is spread over a long time

Your mod has extended SDT from a simple blowjob simulator to something much more. Thank you for your hard work, it is extremely appreciated by me and this community and will continue to be a valuable resource for ages to come

 

[UndertowTruck]

I have changed my mind on this, I don't think we should encourage commissioned mods on undertow.club
When people who did things out of the goodness of their hearts are then paid money for it, detrimental results transpire.
Check out this video

 

[LordOfFlies]

Hey guys, Tentacle-Daddy here (Vengeful on discord) I personally think it falls to both the modder and the client, I remember I originally was going to try to commission Samoth or Sclover for the Artoria Pendragon outfit I wanted, both refused. Now this is entirely up to them and I respect it, but for me as the person offering money it stems from several reasons as to why people would commission a mod beyond the normal requests.

1) (the rudest and shittiest reason but prob most common) They are impatient, and think by paying for your time their request may take priority over your other work, take the “apex” dude who tried to get EVERY modder to do Apex, he couldn’t wait and request a mod nicely and now will prob never see his mod made due to his pushing away the mod team.

2) For me personally, I wanted to Commission Sclover/Samoth not only because they seemed to be the best fits for the mod, but because I as an Artist myself barely make money as is, and you guys are doing the lords work most of the time for free. Even if you guys don’t want commissions, I as a supporter would love to see you guys with a Patreon/Paypal for tips, as even if you are not being commisioned by me I would love to help support your work and keep you invested as like others have said, people tend to phase out of our little community. Which brings me to the final reason

3) it’ll be more insentive to make more mods, bot in the sense that people have said as in by some miracle more mods will pop up, but it’s okay to say “hey if I was getting tips on the side of this, I may be more inclined to do it. Compare when UTC went down and the new buyer loved us, but couldn’t commit based on finances. For you guys, we do know sometimes life gets hard. Another part is I want to support my friends and ensure they are stable, and Commissions/Tips do help is keep you in work and give you extra motivation, whether money is a big thing to you or not, having that extra support may help.

there are probably a ton of other reasons For/against it, but I personally think it should work througu an optional tip system. This is because most modders I speak to do not seem to care too much about commisions, but as a potential Patron even if it wasn’t commission there are several modders (Nearly all the ones on our discord) that I would gladly DONATE to at the very least. I for one wouldn’t mind commision but again, I am an artist myself and have always spent a lot of money on art. It just is invaluable to me and even the art in a horny flash game came be worth serious money to me.

HOWEVER, At the end of the day I do think this decision is up to you guys, the creators, alone. Do what you are comfortable with and want to do, but
TLDR; Commission meh, would really like to see a tip system to support you guys. I personally would be able to afford/set up commissions and would gladly do so, but I understand why it’s not a easy answer.

 

[Samoth]

I as a supporter would love to see you guys with a Patreon/Paypal for tips, as even if you are not being commisioned by me I would love to help support your work and keep you invested as like others have said, people tend to phase out of our little community.

One thing I will note on this topic specifically regarding this quote is that a recent update to the site has allowed modders the option to add a "donation box" type link to their resources on the RM. So in that sense, people who wish to support creators (and who are aware of this existing) are able to do so, if the creator has chosen to put a link there. (Links aren't added automatically and it's still a feature the modder has to put together on their end.

I will also note an alternate perspective to the point you brought up in #1, from the other side - the thing I've always been concerned about with taking commissions is turnaround. How quickly does the client want it? How long are they willing to accept it taking? If the two sides have different answers to this question, it can create conflict. (I'm probably blowing this idea out of proportion, but I tend to do that which might be useful when looking at a scenario like this.)

 

[LordOfFlies]

One thing I will note on this topic specifically regarding this quote is that a recent update to the site has allowed modders the option to add a "donation box" type link to their resources on the RM. So in that sense, people who wish to support creators (and who are aware of this existing) are able to do so, if the creator has chosen to put a link there. (Links aren't added automatically and it's still a feature the modder has to put together on their end.

I will also note an alternate perspective to the point you brought up in #1, from the other side - the thing I've always been concerned about with taking commissions is turnaround. How quickly does the client want it? How long are they willing to accept it taking? If the two sides have different answers to this question, it can create conflict. (I'm probably blowing this idea out of proportion, but I tend to do that which might be useful when looking at a scenario like this.)

that's where I would urge you guys to be careful, I again can say for me in most things I am always super patient about hiring people for work, other artist specifically. I've gotten 3 works done on fiver for RP/DND related content and each time I NEVER mentioned deadline. That is entirely left to who I am asking to work on my art, and is a very valid concern considering when you get problematic people as your "patrons". For me, the only time I ever got money back on a "commission" was related to cosplay, and that was after nearly a year of me watching them post other products they had made and give me a ton of excuses and false deadlines, which, is a entirely different problem I do not see being an issue here. The main issue with commissions as a concept for SDT mods would probably bank on this more now that we are actually talking about it as well as I can personally attest (not as a mod author but as an art major) that deadlines drastically sap your motivation outside of literally forcing you to put aside other products. I wouldn't expect nor do I ever even forsee it reaching a point where you guys will be putting dated deadlines on your work, but most understanding clients wouldn't ask you too. Especially since undertow unlike fiver (which I have had all but one bad experience with where one seller wound up never responding at all, 100% my fault tbh but I got my money back immediately) Doesn't actually and should not ever enforce deadlines.

 

[The Hacker Known As Snow]

I will also note an alternate perspective to the point you brought up in #1, from the other side - the thing I've always been concerned about with taking commissions is turnaround. How quickly does the client want it? How long are they willing to accept it taking? If the two sides have different answers to this question, it can create conflict. (I'm probably blowing this idea out of proportion, but I tend to do that which might be useful when looking at a scenario like this.)

You could calk that concern up to to growing pains of the community. The whole forum as always failed to communicate how painstaking it is to create mods and that's why we continue to get low or no effort requests. If commissioned mods start happening or really if more modders start showing up it would do us all good to create and clearly communicate standards. I've heard samoth and sclover say they put dozens of hours over months to perfect some of their mods. Everyone needs to know and hear that a ton more.

There real issue just that though. What the hell do you charge for art that takes you weeks/months to make?

 

[LordOfFlies]

Well this is going to start Bordering on personal opinion so please, Take my next words with a grain of salt as honestly that does fall upon you as the creator. My commisions on fiver have ranged from 75 dollars all the way to 300+, and each time the quality matched what I spent. I think that would have to be a major factor if commissions ever become a thing, as it’s one of the easiest ways to cause issues. A simple way to think of this is as a Modder, how much effort would you put in working for 20 dollars vs 50 or more. & it helps to be honest. This is also where it would depend on the Modder themself as again, Sclover and Samoth also tend to make whole outfit mods as opposed to just an accesorie or a one shot hair, this is also why they are usually higher in quality in my opinion, as not only are they coming from two of our top creators but for the genshin girls (& Correct me if I am wrong Samoth) his references are on point & I’d argue Genshin is his thing, so he enjoys making the Genshin girls and therefore is already hella interested in making them.

if I was to take my art brain and attempt to appraise them, I would honest Value any of Sclover/Samoths mods and many of the moss made by our other creators would cost anywhere from 5-75 dollars dependijg on the outfit in question. For more painstaking mods like Mercy I would even argue that could cost 100+ dollars considering the time spent making it, the level of detail & the actual result of the mod. Plus mods like that with wings/glowing are harder to make from what you guys have told me.