Zakos for (GZ)Doom (Release) (1 Viewer)

[MZZ]

First, Titty Doom. Not much to say here. Two new enemies. Their basic look is good but the animations are so stiff. And the bishops rectangular "forcefield" just doesn't look good. It would be better if it didn't have this sharp border or if it was a different shape, like round maybe. It could be some sort of holy aura, like the way that halos were drawn in medieval drawings.
Only the boss enemies are left now, right?
Since you have almost run out of enemies to create, could you make some more statues and other decorative elements next?

Thanks for your feedback :)

I agree, the forcefield is really crap. It is a cylinder in 3D, but the effect just does not work in camera. I fiddled a bit around with fading settings but it did not look good. But I need to communicate the size of the Arachnotron somehow. Probably gets another design pass.
With stiff you mean a specific animation? Like the Revenant melee attack? I could sneak in some in between frames, maybe.

About decorations, I'll have to see. Unsure if doing it gory style or sexy style. (Vanilla Impaled soldier, bodies hanging from the ceiling, etc.)

Skörk has gotten more interesting. I like the new animations and the new gameplay (in theory). It plays totally differently now. The player needs to strategize more and isolate enemies to heal. The game has become harder overall, which is good. But it's too much in my opinion. Here are the problems:
The player needs to get into melee range to heal and to use his powerful claws. But all enemies are hitscanners and on top of that they seem to have quicker reaction times and they shoot faster. Even the Zako's armed with a pistol shoot quicker than Doom's Zombiemen. Not to mention the Zakos with rifles, which are plentiful. Shotgunners seem to have more health than the vanilla Doom ones. They can't be downed with a single shotgun blast even at close range, so they will usually get in a shot of their own before dying. It's very difficult to get close to enemies, without losing more health than you can heal from them. The only way to do it reliebly is by corner-camping or surprising them or downing them first. But downed enemies seem to heal you less. And to top it all off, you can't pick up any armour.

Yes, the different approach to fighting is intended, you are the alien that stalks the clueless victims and strikes when they are alone ;)
I'll look into the health of the enemies, could be that they slip over a solid shotgun blast on UV. The shotgun is modified too, more pellets and more circular pellet distribution. All basic enemies so far are 80-90 health. The aggression level is still Zombieman, except in melee range, then they go panic mode magdump. I had to replace many higher monsters with rifles because so far I don't have more monster replacements ^^.
Downed enemies should not have any impact on the healing amount.
Armor can still be picked up, but gives way less amount, so it may be that it is not picked up if you are already over the threshold.

Doom 2 on UV is super challenging for me right from the start. It gets a bit easier once I have both weapons. I have only completed the first two levels so far. I think The Focus is gonna be a damned firing squad, not to mention The Crusher...
In my opinion, there shouldn't be any hitscanners in this mod. But if you want to have them, then at least reduce their reaction times by A LOT and perhaps their fire rate or accuracy too. Also, this might be the kind of mod, that really needs its own maps with lower enemy counts, shorter ranges and more cover.

Have to think about it with the hitscanners. Own maps would be very nice, but oh the time to do it...

Another thing, that I am worried about are the weapons. I like the ammo limitation and I think it is balanced right, at least for the early Doom 2 levels. The player hast just enough fire power most of the time. But I'm also worried, that it might encourage constant backtracking to stock up on ammo. I haven't had to do this yet in my brief playtesting though.

Don't know if it is that bad. Dropping a weapon is a coinflip, you better use it quickly (to thin out crowds) and don't hoard it. Ammo that lies around is just food that gives you a bit of health.

And finally, it is still possible to infinitely suck enemies by repeatedly quitting and restarting during the first animation and thereby getting infinite armour. It is more difficult than before though, because the Zakos will shoot you in the face immediately, if you don't click them quickly enough.

You could call it a risk & reward feature :P

 

[reinhold.doppeldecker]

With stiff you mean a specific animation?

No all of them :P
Like how both enemies don't move their arms at all when walking and their pose doesn't change when attacking, except for when the Revenant uses melee. They really do move like human chess pieces.

Unsure if doing it gory style or sexy style.

That's a difficult one. I'd say both would be nice. Although I'm leaning slightly towrads gory.

The aggression level is still Zombieman, except in melee range, then they go panic mode magdump.

That's interesting. So it's a melee attack that looks like a ranged attack or do they actually have different behaviour depending on range?

One thing I forgot to mention is that I think the title screen for Slörk looks really cute and funny :)

 

[MZZ]

Like how both enemies don't move their arms at all when walking and their pose doesn't change when attacking, except for when the Revenant uses melee. They really do move like human chess pieces.

Ah that, well it's fitting as the two figures are coming from my chess game
Did not think too much about it.

That's interesting. So it's a melee attack that looks like a ranged attack or do they actually have different behaviour depending on range?

The AI state machine always tries to jump to the melee state if close, but many enemies don't have one, so it tries the missile attack.
(If that is also not defined, you got a pacifist monster :D)
What happens under the state label, is up to the coder :)

One thing I forgot to mention is that I think the title screen for Slörk looks really cute and funny :)

Aww, he is just out of his element and confused Hope I can do some more "pics", for level transitions and stuff.

 

[reinhold.doppeldecker]

I was in the mood to test Slörk some more. This time I did E1M1 and E1M2 on UV. It was significantly easier. Maybe it's just because of the relatively low enemy count, but I also think I got a bit better. But the beginning of E1M3 almost killed me immediately. I don't think I could have survived it without weapons from the previous level. Anyway, here are some observations:

Enemies aren't much of a threat at range, unless they have rifles. It's not a big problem to run at them even from a long distance and without cover. But as soon as you are in melee range, they will shred you. You have to be really quick to press use on them. I found it useful to spit at them while charging, to trigger their pain state at the right moment. Although pistol Zakos often die from one hit.
I noticed, that there is a very slight delay between the sound of an enemy attack and that attack actually causing damage. Press use on the enemy quickly enough and you will hear the shot but take no damage. I wouldn't be surprised if this was normal Doom behaviour, that I only noticed by playing this mod.
I barely used the claws this time. They're not very useful in most situations. Against single enemies, if you can get into range safely, you want to suck them dry in almost every case and not punch them. And if they aren't alone, you don't want to get close to them. Claws are only useful, when you don't have enough ammo to deal with groups and no cover to spit from, or if you are ambushed at close range. And tight groups of enemies in melee range are a death sentence.
Also, I don't like the new shotgun spread. It is pretty bad as a midrange weapon, while not being any better at close range.

About the camera during animations: The camera follows the action, if the animation takes place on a moving platform. But platforms and doors can still blind the player by getting inbetween the action and the camera. And if the action takes place on solid ground but the camera is on a moving platform or under a door, the player will also be blinded.
I've also had a bug one single time and no idea how to replicate it. While sucking on one shotgunner I was shot by another and the animation was interrupted, but the camera stayed in place. The shotgunner was released, but Slörk didn't appear anywhere in sight. He could still be shot and killed though.

And a question came to my mind: How does the mod decide, what type of Zako to turn an enemy into? I've seen imps being replaced by either of the 3 types.

Two suggestions: Claws should be buffed, so that the player has a chance to survive against tightly packed groups in close range. Just buffing damage could do the trick. But I would prefer it, if the claws could damage and therefore stun multiple adjacent enemies at the same time, if such a thing is possible.
Make it possible for the player to rotate the camera around Slörk during an animation. I've mentioned above, how the player can get completely blinded and this could help against that. But first and foremost it is to deal with enemies around corners. When Slörk grabs an enemy around a corner, he is now exposed to getting shot at by whatever other enemies might be there. But the player can't see, what Slörk sees. The player should be able to rotate the camera during a scene, to see around the corner and abort the animation if necessary. (Again, if such a thing is possible.)

 

[MZZ]

I noticed, that there is a very slight delay between the sound of an enemy attack and that attack actually causing damage. Press use on the enemy quickly enough and you will hear the shot but take no damage. I wouldn't be surprised if this was normal Doom behaviour, that I only noticed by playing this mod.

Must be Doom itself, the function call that shoots also generates the sound.

Also, I don't like the new shotgun spread. It is pretty bad as a midrange weapon, while not being any better at close range.

What was your expectation?

About the camera during animations: The camera follows the action, if the animation takes place on a moving platform. But platforms and doors can still blind the player by getting inbetween the action and the camera. And if the action takes place on solid ground but the camera is on a moving platform or under a door, the player will also be blinded.
I've also had a bug one single time and no idea how to replicate it. While sucking on one shotgunner I was shot by another and the animation was interrupted, but the camera stayed in place. The shotgunner was released, but Slörk didn't appear anywhere in sight. He could still be shot and killed though.

There are limits how hard I can wrangle the camera, the game is not intended for what I do.
Probably the enemy got interrupted by death while already being in death animation.

And a question came to my mind: How does the mod decide, what type of Zako to turn an enemy into? I've seen imps being replaced by either of the 3 types.

Thats easy, GZDoom has a function to replace map spawns with a randomized list:

Make it possible for the player to rotate the camera around Slörk during an animation.

Uh that can be either very tricky or dead simple, depending how I can intercept raw player inputs from GZDoom. But good idea, I'll look into it :)

 

[MZZ]

reinhold.doppeldecker
I did some scripting for a test version: Slörk0.2b
- lowered HP for all enemies. Tightend shotgun spread a bit.
- Camera can be rotated while in scene, but if the actors are on a moving plattform it is not very good.
- when a victim is released or interrupted, the victim is stunned/ko for a short time (less than a second)
- there is a total amount of health/armor you can suck out of the victim. If the victim has no more to give, the death animation plays.
- Hopefully plugged all holes (badumdiss) where the player can be stuck in a scene. When in doubt, press "use" again.

and in general, design for tougher enemy class, the soldier:

 

[reinhold.doppeldecker]

reinhold.doppeldecker
I did some scripting for a test version: Slörk0.2b
- lowered HP for all enemies. Tightend shotgun spread a bit.
- Camera can be rotated while in scene, but if the actors are on a moving plattform it is not very good.
- when a victim is released or interrupted, the victim is stunned/ko for a short time (less than a second)
- there is a total amount of health/armor you can suck out of the victim. If the victim has no more to give, the death animation plays.
- Hopefully plugged all holes (badumdiss) where the player can be stuck in a scene. When in doubt, press "use" again.

and in general, design for tougher enemy class, the soldier:

You forgot to mention that pistol and rifle Zakos are no longer hitscanners.

Played again for a bit, first 5 levels of Doom 2 on UV "pistolstart". Deathless, but I came very close to dying everal times.
I like the difficulty. It's still a challenge, but I'm not reloading a dozen times at the start of a level.

The general strategy for me is to not take any chances with the shotgunners and kill them with weapons as quickly as possible. With the others I can take my time spitting them to death at any but close range, even without cover. If possible, leave one enemy in an area alive (except shotgunners) and then suck them plus any downed enemies.

The short grace period after releasing a victim was a good idea. That means I can retreat after making a bad decision and maybe get out unscathed.
I don't know if it was just a coincidence, but the chaingunners seemed rather passive this time and barely shot me more than their pistol toting sisters.
There seem to be a lot more shotgunners around in this version compared to the last. They are an annoyance, as I've already mentioned, but it also means that I rarely run out of shells. This coupled with the lowered spread makes the shotgun the workhorse weapon again and most enemies killed in every level are with that weapon and with spit.
The number of shotgunners is probably gonna decrease again with the introduction of other enemies. Otherwise I'd suggest lowering shell capacity for the player to 6.

I only tried the old infinite armour exploit a couple of times, but you seem to have eliminated it successfully.

The rotating camera is appreciated, even if it does lead to lots of clipping into walls (which could be seen as an exploit).

 

[MZZ]

You forgot to mention that pistol and rifle Zakos are no longer hitscanners.

Ah yes, that detail. Did it first and then wrestled with the camera

but the chaingunners seemed rather passive this time and barely shot me more than their pistol toting sisters.

I removed the option for the third shot in the salvo, so at best they double tap. (The soldier will have tripple shots)
The aggression is the same but depending on their internal logic it may take some time until they fire again.
Decino explaining how the Doom AI works
Wounding an enemy makes him retaliate, so using slow firing spit can also give the impression of less return fire.

I only tried the old infinite armour exploit a couple of times, but you seem to have eliminated it successfully.

Yes, I added a total "suck" counter. So you can get only so much out of 'em. :)

The rotating camera is appreciated, even if it does lead to lots of clipping into walls (which could be seen as an exploit).

With the FoV it always could happen that the cam poked through walls

Thanks for taking your time & feedback :)

 

[Deleted member 615349]

Zako doom is a great mod, but the arachnotron sprite is far too large, especially the corpse. It would be lovely for ti to always XDEATH on kill, but as far as I'm aware arachnotron can't XDEATH.

 

[MZZ]

Zako doom is a great mod, but the arachnotron sprite is far too large, especially the corpse. It would be lovely for ti to always XDEATH on kill, but as far as I'm aware arachnotron can't XDEATH.

Yeah, that enemy is not the best. But having an XDEATH is no problem in gzdoom, just add the state label and put animations there. The game will act accordingly if an XDEATH state is defined.

 

[Deleted member 615349]

Yeah, that enemy is not the best. But having an XDEATH is no problem in gzdoom, just add the state label and put animations there. The game will act accordingly if an XDEATH state is defined.

But Xdeath only occurs if an enemy reaches their HP in negative health right? Gibbing arachnotrons is impossible.

 

[MZZ]

But Xdeath only occurs if an enemy reaches their HP in negative health right? Gibbing arachnotrons is impossible.

You'd have to hit them hard enough to get to -500 health in one go, so no, not with vanilla weapons.

 

[Deleted member 615349]

I'm pretty sure I'm the biggest fan of this wad, I play it every day with different doom wads. Problem is, as my skills improve and I move on to more difficult and monster heavy levels, the zako mod lags too much. I have an 8700k, 2070, and 32 gigs of ram. The issues with performance are the size and detail of the sprites plain and simple. It would be nice to have a version of the mod with lower quality sprites (that can be filtered in engine anyway to make them smooth) that would run better on more monster intensive maps.

 

[MZZ]

I'm pretty sure I'm the biggest fan of this wad, I play it every day with different doom wads. Problem is, as my skills improve and I move on to more difficult and monster heavy levels, the zako mod lags too much. I have an 8700k, 2070, and 32 gigs of ram. The issues with performance are the size and detail of the sprites plain and simple. It would be nice to have a version of the mod with lower quality sprites (that can be filtered in engine anyway to make them smooth) that would run better on more monster intensive maps.

Glad you like it :D
I got the impression that the mod ran better with older versions of GZDoom, but that's just a feeling.

Anyway, I did a quick test before going to bed, halved all sprite sizes and increased scaling factor. Brightmaps not adjusted and probably missed some scaling factors. But does this run better for you?
ZakoDoomLowTEST.7z on Mega

 

[Deleted member 615349]

Glad you like it :D
I got the impression that the mod ran better with older versions of GZDoom, but that's just a feeling.

Anyway, I did a quick test before going to bed, halved all sprite sizes and increased scaling factor. Brightmaps not adjusted and probably missed some scaling factors. But does this run better for you?
ZakoDoomLowTEST.7z on Mega

Thank you! This is great, performance is fixed across the board! There's still a lagspike when a lot of monsters spawn alert sounds, but that's inevitable given the high quality sound files (which are worth it). Only issue is you forgot to scale back down the archvile sprite.

Edit:
Did a bit more testing. Pain elemental, Cyberdemon, and Mancubus, are also off scale

 

[MZZ]

Edit:
Did a bit more testing. Pain elemental, Cyberdemon, and Mancubus, are also off scale

Yeah, I expected to miss some on my first try :D
Fixed Now

 

[Deleted member 615349]

Yeah, I expected to miss some on my first try :D
Fixed Now

Feel like I'm being pedantic now, but archiviles float in this version. Thanks again for working with me on this.

Also the pain elemental is too low and her sprite is below her hitbox

 

[MZZ]

Feel like I'm being pedantic now, but archiviles float in this version. Thanks again for working with me on this.

Also the pain elemental is too low and her sprite is below her hitbox

Ok, hopefully now all anomalies are squashed (found some more)
MEGA

 

[Deleted member 615349]

Ok, hopefully now all anomalies are squashed (found some more)
MEGA

Awesome, thanks this is great. Though the baronofhell is too tall and skinny. :)

 

[MZZ]

goddamnit
I'll update on the weekend.